Chucklefck

So I’m in discussions with the people at Ingenuity Fest to produce a full time comedy stage at this years festival, I’ve begun reaching out to folks I want involved in the event, including clubs and some comedians.

I have no idea what really goes into putting on a good festival, I have some ideas of what I want to do…I contacted WTF! pod to see about doing a live podcast at the festival (doesn’t work out scheduling wise for Maron) and am looking into some other podcast folks to bring in as the ‘marquee’ event at the festival.

I know I want to open the festival to performers from around the country, I want to figure out a way to make it worth their while.  I know I want to get the clubs involved in the hopes of them putting up weeks of work for me to give to stand outs from the festival…

So i sent this email out:

Did you get my previous email regarding the partnership I’m developing with Ingenuity Fest (www.ingenuitycleveland.com) for this year? I’d like to figure out a way to get this to benefit chucklefck, the clubs and the city of Cleveland.

This is a response I got from one of the comedy clubs in Cleveland….

The problem with doing standup outside the confines of a comedy club is that it most often is a hell gig. Add to that by doing it under some bridge and you may have a disaster on your hands. That can only add to the hellishness of the gig. The fear of putting out an inferior product and having that reflect poorly on (A Cleveland Comedy Club) is what would stop us from getting  involved. Start with your choice of comics for this event: Moran is a genius but totally inappropriate for this event. Way too cerebral, sarcastic, and angry. I bet if you told him that he would be performing on an outdoor stage under a bridge he wouldn’t even take the gig unless the money was outstanding. Doug Benson is a pot- head that appeals to other potheads. Wonder why you would want to book him…duh. Again, totally inappropriate for families and kids.

So, if you would like us to act a some kind of sponsor we would have to work with you and the fest people to do it right.

——-

my response:

Ok, well my targeting of those comics was more for the podcasts which are really really popular, they do live recordings of them at other festivals around the coutnry (SXSW, bumbershoot, etc.) that are then made available on itunes for their thousands of fans to d/l and check out.

The area of the bridge we’re discussing for the stage is set off in the back, not one of those ‘walk through’ stages, you won’t get back there unless you set out for it, it’ll be a smaller 50-75 person area if that.

My plan for the festival is to have a few one man shows, sketch/improv groups from Chicago & Cleveland, and open the stand up programming to comics all over.

Ideally, I’d like to get the clubs on board to put up weeks of work (host, feature, h/l) to use to entice comedians to come and perform, since most of the budget I get is going to go to a marquee type of person, who would you bring to the festival (A Comedy Club Manager)?

I’ll tell you this, I don’t know about adding the (A Cleveland Comedy Club) to the ‘overseer’ role of the festival; there’s a lot of comics I feel are talented you don’t work and there’s some comics you work that leave me puzzled.

Perhaps by opening the (Cleveland Comedy Club) on Sunday, Sept 18 (the day festival wraps) for a ‘best of the fest’ show, where the guys who stood out and are in consideration for the work the club put up would perform?

——

HIS RESPONSE:

Look, we live in 2 different comedy worlds. I know talent and I know how to put shows on. Frankly, you don’t know talent and you don’t know how to put on a show. When I said that I fear your Ingenuity show would “reflect poorly on the (One of the Cleveland Comedy Clubs)” it is because of you and your total lack of the intimate knowledge of standup. Funny thing is you can’t see how bad your judgment is on your own comedy let alone the standup of the comics you put on stage.

It makes me a little angry to think that the people that see your shows may walk away thinking what they just saw was real standup. You give real standup a bad name. You think it’s funny for comics to squirm when they don’t get laughs. You think it’s cool to heckle a crowd because they don’t get your jokes. I shudder to think there is a possibility that If you expose enough people to your comics that they might stop coming to see real comedians in real comedy clubs and 55 people that work in this club alone would lose their jobs all because of your ridiculous notion that you know what is good standup comedy.

So go get your Chicago wanabee comics. Go get your unknown comics that are artists rather than comedians that know how to get laughs. You can criticize the talent I use only when you match what I do. Until that time, stick to embarrassing  yourself on ”The Bob & Tom Show” and giving the local comedy scene a bad name. Leave it at that and leave the (One of the Cleveland Comedy Clubs) out of it. Hey, it’s not like you haven’t heard all this before.

——

So this note goes out to anyone who’s EVER come to one of my stand up comedy shows I’ve produced at Reddstone, Bela Dubby or anywhere else. Did I do you a disservice?

Comics, if the other clubs are as negative about partnering up with me, what would I need to have to make the festival an attractive option for you to submit to and be a part of?

OH, here’s my response to the above email:

The point of this festival to bring comedy to the city it’s not getting right now. You’re right, I don’t supply the level of comedy that the Improv, Hilarities or even the funny stop provide. I provide shows in environments with little to no expectations for the audience or performers, this creates a space where a lot of new and innovative stuff happens.  Stuff that eventually makes its way into the comedy clubs.

My comment about (A Cleveland Comedy Club) probably came across wrong, I just foresee you implementing a bunch of comedians that already work at the clubs here, and that’s not what I’m doing this festival for.

If my small, ‘non comedy’ shows are a threat to the club and livelihood of 55 employees, maybe you’re not as ‘in tune’ with comedy as you think.  Or that wasn’t a real concern of yours, was it?

I’m not really trying to start an argument with you (Comedy Club Manager), I’m trying to do something to bring some light to Cleveland, comedy and beyond. I just figured since the (A Cleveland Comedy Club) purports itself to be the best place for comedy in Cleveland, they’d want to be a part of the festival, considering it’s proximity to the new club grounds and the amount of visitors to the festival.

What really is the issue here? I know you don’t like me or my comedy. That’s not what I contacted you in regards to. I take your comment about ‘the bob and tom show’ being the opie and anthony show that squire and myself were on. Did I even bring that up to you in any way, shape, or form (Comedy Club Manager)?  What’s the point of bringing that up? What’s the point of your whole email aside from belittle, demean and call me a piece of shit?

I don’t appreciate your tone when I’m just trying to figure out a way to establish Cleveland’s comedy scene on a national scale. 

If I had the name, prestige and money of the (A Cleveland Comedy Club), you can bet my shows would on par if not superior to your shows. I do a damn fine job with absolutely no prestige or money of bringing comedy to the public on a more intimate scale than the clubs.

How about instead of being a dickbag and lumping all of the ‘no name’ comics I book together, you actually get off your ass and come see one of my shows, then you’re free to talk all the shit you want.

Hugs and Kisses

Ramon

——

their response to my response:

Your comment didn’t just “come out wrong”. You knew exactly what you were doing. Once again, you insulted me and I am done taking it from you. You are the one who started it, you asshole. You are the one who got fucking offensive. I always gave you the respect of an honest answer and all you’ve ever done is thrown it back in my face. RESPECT…do you know anything about it? Respect is something you know very little about. You don’t offer it so you don’t get it back, you moron! I am tired of it and I’ve had it with you. If you are not going to insult me ever again. You’ve told me for the umpteenth time that I don’t know what I am doing and I don’t know talent. I am NOT going to put up with it anymore! You keep telling me that I use comics that you think suck and you think you know better than me. I am NOT going to put up with it anymore! And you keep being a whiney bitch and I am NOT going to put up with that either. Grow the fuck up.

LOOK-YOU’VE HEARD THIS SO MANY TIMES BEFORE that sometimes you have to look yourself in the mirror and think that maybe you are the problem; maybe you might be wrong and the rest of the world might be right. Think about it. You are so fucking blind as to how unprofessional you are and how you could care less about anyone but yourself that you will end up being alone for the rest of your life. STOP IT NOW!

Where do you get off telling me that I don’t like you. Whiney whiney whiney little boy. Go ahead and make shit up just to make yourself feel better. What would ever give you the idea that I didn’t like you? You are right about your standup…it is embarrassing and awful but I never attacked you personally like you have done to me so many times. Don’t ever tell me what I think or how I feel because you don’t know shit about me. You are mass agonistic and selfish.

I don’t care if it is one person or 10 people that stops seeing standup comedy after watching one of your rotten shows. It does affect me and that is why I have been successful and why this club has been around for 22 years. I believe even a little piss ant mother fucker like you CAN have an effect on my business.

I know you need the last word but you are not going to get it. I will outlast you because I am smarter than you, wiser than you , I am much more righteous than you, I have many more life experiences than you, and I have done this dance with little boys like you many times before. So, go ahead and fire away over and over and over. Make yourself feel better with your email masturbation. Now I have to call my associate, Jim Levin, and make sure that he knows that you are in no way affiliated with the (A Cleveland Comedy Club), and you are in no way qualified to run the comedy stage during his festival. Sorry little buddy.

COMMENTS FROM FB:

James M Burge Jr and Mike Mace like this.

• James M Burge Jr I’m not sure why your suppressing the name of the club but I would like to know.
• Adam Richard James is right. I have no idea if I’ll ever get up to a level of stand up where I am doing a “real” club, but fuck…if doing “real” shows are run by guys like that, then I don’t want any part of it. Hell, why am I even acting like I have…n’t done a real comedy show yet? I fucking gushed to all of my friends about how excited I was to play Redstone and Gomorrah, because I was finally “not doing an open mic”, but a legitimate gig with other great comics. Ramon, you, as well as Jim, Mike, and all the other vets have taught me so fucking much in such a little amount of time about what it takes it be funny, how much work goes into putting on a show, and how important it is to keep working on material and finding a the right balance to make it work that you shouldn’t take any of what that guy says to heart. What a complete jackass for not seeing Ingenuity as an opportune time to not only showcase some awesome talent, but to get your club’s name out there. What a joke.
• Martita Johnston This guy’s a total tool, sounds like someone more worried about his club than the comedy in Cleveland. I’ve always loved your shows for feeling so relaxed and casual, not another “that’ll be $20 to see the funny guy” kind of show. Even when… comedians aren’t the funniest, your shows give them an opportunity to still feel some support from a small “intimate” group. Without opportunities like that, how does new talent really learn and get better? If this guy was truly concerned about comedy in Cleveland, he’d be excited about your interest and willing to work with you to make the best of this festival
• Chelsea Elizabeth McKee Sam Kinison? Andy Kaufman? Dom Irrera? Not everyone loved them. In fact, people hated them. And yet they are now in the top 100 Comedians of All Time. (Come on! People hate on Drew Carey, too!)
  
  Who is this guy to say what’s funny and what is…n’t? His comedy club is probably on the brink of going belly up (and this banter gives an idea of why) and it seems to me like he is just looking for a scapegoat.
• Ramon Rivas II ‎James M Burge Jr it’s one of the clubs I don’t work at.
• Lee Herlands It was ME! It was ME! I am the big a-hole that had enough of Ramon’s whining, crying, and insults. And it’s the Improv that has now banned his big mouth from coming to the club.
  
  Ramon just wouldn’t stop insulting me. Why else would I go off… on him? I am normally a mild mannered (albeit opinionated) man. You don’t know what I’ve had to put up with from Ramon. You don’t know what I’ve had to endure. He continually belittled the Improv and me, he continually questioned my expertise in the comedy business even though I have thrived in this crazy world for 22 years which is more time than how long Ramon has been on this earth, For the past two years, he had the audacity to keep telling me how to run my business. Not only would he tell me (and so many other long time comedy people) what we should be doing but also what we are doing wrong. This from a guy who has been trying to do comedy at its lowest level for only a couple of years. Do you know how insulting that is? So I snapped. He kept telling me that I suck. He kept doing these things over and over and over. So he finally got to me and I exploded with a rant of the truth about how nasty and insecure he is. I took him to task and the little boy in him wants approval from you all. Go fuck yourself little Ramon. Like I said before, grow up
  
  Ramon needs to learn not only what to say but what NOT to say. All of us have learned how to hold our tongues except Ramon. He is cruel and relentless with his insults and he is self indulgent. His perspective of himself is so unreal that it is scary. Ramon has built himself up in his own mind to be some kind of standup guru when, in reality, his knowledge of standup is so limited that it’s embarrassing.
  
  Quite frankly, Ramon has a big unchecked mouth that needs to be sewed shut until he learns how to respect people especially people that disagree with him because that’s when he goes off into some crazy mind rage that borders on the insane. There are pills for that.
  
  DON’T BE FOOLED BY HIM! He is a ruthless, arrogant, liar who thinks he can say anything to anyone without any retaliation. What frightened little baby Ramon was when I said I was going to bust him to my friend, the Director of the Ingenuity Festival. He will tell you that I am the “big, bad corporate giant flexing my muscles “when all I said to him was I WILL NOT TAKE YOUR SHIT ANYMORE.
  
  You can believe me or not. All I ask is that you look at a persons’ motivation. Ramon came to me for money and for sponsorship from the Improv which would have given him the appearance of legitimacy to the Ingenuity people. When I refused him, he went nuts on me and he went off on me AGAIN. Now he is here trying to convince all of you, his adoring public, that he was the one who was wronged. How lame. How transparent. Ramon went to his public because he is so insecure and he feels the need to build himself up at the expense of me and others who have found some success thru hard work and perseverance, two characteristics that Ramon knows nothing about. DON’T BE FOOLED BY RAMON!
  
  Ramon does comedy because he cannot hold a regular job. The only reason Ramon travels with Drew Thomas is because he drives Drew around. He blows Drew and he listens to Drew’s stories about being on the road. Ramon has been kicking around open mics for way too long. Only a mentally challenged person would continue to do something so poorly for so long instead of getting a real job.
  
  Oh, did I tell you that I gave Ramon a job? Yes, the big, bad man of the Improv gave Ramon work when he was flat broke and about to be evicted. I guess Ramon wouldn’t bring that up because it doesn’t fit his MO to make the Improv out to be the Big Bad Goliath of Cleveland comedy and me out to be the big asshole that he says I am. Yep, I hired Ramon. Guess how that turned out? He soaked the Improv for thousands. Let’s wait to hear his spin on why he lost his job at the Improv Should be interesting.
  
  I’m done for now but I will repeat what I told Ramon. I know he needs to get the last word in but I will not let that happen. Even though I know he is like a 4 year old, I will outlast him, I will out talk him, and the truth will prevail. I am more honest than him, and more righteous than him. I will not retreat. Ramon opened his mouth one too many times to the wrong guy.
• Ramon Rivas II Lee Herlands > Charlie Sheen
• Malloy Martin good luck ramon let me know if I can help.
• Chris Butsavage Damn, sounds like this dude thinks youre a pretty big threat
• Chris Butsavage And whats with all the righteousness bs, its fucking comedy, not the priesthood
• Mike Smith Lee, I’ve seen Ramon a few times. He’s pretty funny, especially for a new guy. Broadcasting that a comic is not funny is like saying that a pediatrician is a child molester. It’s a fairly big kick in the nuts. This is from someone who is only a watcher and has no vested interest in the comedy shows, and who was enjoyed shows at your club as well. (And has the disposable income to watch further shows at your club.)
• Tanya Villa What others think of you is none of your business, that doesn’t define you, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, that doesn’t make or break you. That is my motto, and that is how I raised my children.
• Ramon Rivas II Maybe Lee’s mom raised him to harbor grudges.
• Tanya Villa Cross boundary of your thoughts to post for public to view, wouldn’t this be considered from a legal prospective “deframation of one’s character (Ramon’s), what a disservice, injustice, disrepect this GM has shown to all comedians & comedy clubs. Not Professional Public Relation or common courtesy skills from an elder in the comedy arena, sad, very sad.
• Tanya Villa Ramon just turn the other cheek. Karma: what you put out comes back at you
• Tanya Villa ■“Retire into yourself as much as possible. Associate with people who are likely to improve you. Welcome those whom you are capable of improving. The process is a mutual one. People learn as they teach.Sometimes the teacher is the student, …everyone can learn from one another, we all have gifts to share to improve our lives and others & vs versa on this journey on this earth. No one is better or worse then anybody, we all are created equal and have the spark of our creator in each of us.” Namaste’ means my greatness w/in me honors the great spirit within you”
  Every human being must learn this lesson, we are here to honor one another, no matter what, we are here to help one another, that is why this earth/mankind is in such despair, such prejudices, racism, self-righteousness & arrogance of racial, ethnic cultural, religious, idealism, political beliefs, comedic prospective/jokes
• Mike Smith What she said. And if that doesn’t work, cut him.
• Ramon Rivas II ‎Lee Herlands
  1. I’m pretty sure you’ve never been to one of the shows I produce…no, you came to the very end of the Roast of Jim Tews.
  http://www.youtube.com/vie w_play_list?p=C3F537430DAD4D66
  
  2. You hired me to increase your twitter/facebo…ok fan bases. I took twitter from 9 to 162 followers in 3 months, and facebook added 200 over that same amount of time. All while the Improv neglected to: 1) procure in house notices of being on facebook/twitter (window clings/posters) and 2) the Emcee’s didn’t start announcing about the online stuff until 3 weeks before my contract ended
  
  At one point, your asked ‘if we could just set up thursdays to invite anyone who follows on twitter to come see a show’ so i started #twitterthursdays, then two weeks later you asked me how we can keep the same people from coming every week…
  
  Granted, none of this had anything to do with you. You told me to go through a former manager at the club since you were too busy, and he left the club a few weeks before my contract ended
  
  So yes, you’re right: I didn’t do my job to the best of my abilities. Which is why the Improv received a discounted rate for a 3 month period, at the end of which it was decided that things weren’t up to snuff and that was that.
  
  That’s it, a lot of the other stuff you’re bringing up seems very deep seeded and personal, I don’t believe I ever said anything in the exact context you’re speaking from, but if that’s how you took it there’s nothing I can do about that.
  
  It’s unfortunate we couldn’t all just get along, but no worries. We’ll all be stuck in Cleveland for the rest of our lives and I’m okay with that.
• Lee Herlands Look at what you wrote: You tell me I hired you for 3 months, I paid you good money for 3 months and you are proud that all you got me was 153 Twitter followers and 200 FB friends. You think that was worth the money? Damn, Doyle’s has been …working our Twitter account for 2 weeks and we are now over 1000 followers without stupid, insignificant labels and without MC announcements. You even admitted that your efforts were lame. So why not just say that you wasted my money and be a man and give me my money back? Or should I thank you for the “discounted rate”? OK…thanks for the discounted rate and thanks for the discounted work!
  
  Your lack of professionalism and your boot strapping to make yourself seem bigger in the comedy has reached the ridiculous already. The way you exaggerate yourself, your boot strapping, has become the biggest joke with comedy people. You have proven the old saying that “a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.” You have taken a little bit of knowledge and tried to dazzle people with bullshit. All to make yourself larger and more important than you really are. It is sad.
  
  Bullshit will work with the few people (they are not your friends) that follow you here on FaceBook, but not with the rest of the world. Ramon, look at how many comics have come to your defense! NONE!
  
  Instead of keeping your little baby mouth shut, listening and learning from those that have been involved with standup for many years you keep spewing the most inane comments. You lack credibility but use you false arrogance to try to fool people into either hiring you as a comic, or putting on you subpar comedy shows, Does it hurt the Improv business? Not one bit, but, in business theory (which obviously you know nothing about), your production of shitty comedy shows can adversely affect all live comedy shows because people could think that your shows is what a real comedy show is like and both you and I know that it just isn’t so. .
  
  If you were honest, you would announce before all of your comedy shows
  
  “Ladies and Gentlemen, what you are about to see is experimental standup comedy and performance art. Please do not attempt to compare what you are about to see to any professional shows you’ve ever seen before.”
  
  The other stuff I brought, the stuff you called “deep seeded” ain’t so deep. In fact, it’s pretty obvious. Not only did you piss me off but you have pissed off most of the comedy community too. They all like you but will only deal with you in a superficial way. Even one of your best buddies has abandoned you because you are so caustic and unlikeable.
  
  You bring it on yourself with your big baby mouth and your cocky ways which are based on absolutely no foundations. I may be a blowhard but that comes for paying my dues and studying standup and the business of standup for over 22 years. You not only won’t give me props but you belittle me for working hard and being successful.
  
  A few years ago, you should have been more humble and become a student of the game instead of an immature baby trying to prove yourself. What you did was piss off so many cool comedy people that they either ignore you, treat you in a superficial way, or deal with you in an aggressive and confrontational way.
  
  If you want to really “just get along” start by apologizing to me and to all the others that have spoken to you about how you are.
• Ramon Rivas II You have 230 followers of the improv on twitter. You’re either bad at math or don’t understand technology. I apologize for treating you with the same attitude and demeanor you treat others with. And no comics are saying anything b/c you might just ban them too
• Lee Herlands Just testing you, baby big mouth. We are 1000 strong on FB. Don’t project your own insecurities onto others. How would you know how I treat others, baby big mouth?
  
  You have no idea how I treat others because you are not allowed to hang arou…nd people that I associate with except when you stand on the outer circle looking in. I associate with people that show mutual respect for each other and the result is a real affection for one another. Unlike with you, where people put up with your antics and your big baby mouth because you force yourself on them and they feel sorry for you. Why don’t you move back to Chicago for another 10 days and make new friends? Nice career move. It was a real indication of your work ethic.
  
  Come on, big baby mouth, let’s get that last word in. You know you are alone in this fight because you have been alone for awhile now. You know that most everyone has distanced themselves from you doe to your passive/aggressive nature and the delusions of grandeur that become tiresome after knowing you for a short time. Your personality is like your standup-shallow and boring. No wonder you feel like you need to abuse people. I kind of feel sorry for you
• Deborah LaGrange baby big mouth…ooh, are you hitting on my boy? (he’s taken)
• Tanya Villa OKAY LETS’ END THIS INSANITY ALREADY! AND MOVE ON MR. HERLANDS, ENOUGH ALREADY!
• Collin Bullock Hey, Lee, are you booking features? I’ve got great references. I know a guy named Ramon Rivas, I’m pretty sure he’d vouch for me.
• Mia Racquel Rivas Seems like Mr. Herlands is a bully. They had a dateline special about bullying….obviously he didn’t see it so he doesn’t know that bullies are insecure assholes who are trying to compensate for something.
• Lee Herlands I am about to offer Ramon Rivas a truce. But first…
  
  Mia~ I am the one who has been bullied by Ramon. Why do you think I am lashing out at him now? I can’t believe you don’t see that. Ramon has degraded me too many times with his snide commen…ts about my job, my abilities, and my life. This has got to stop. And I am speaking up for all the other people that Ramon has pissed off with his shitty attitude. Ramon knows who has taken him to task for being an a-hole. Ramon knows who has stopped talking to him because of how blatantly caustic he has become. Mia~ there are a lot of people that Ramon has bullied making him the insecure a-hole compensating for his small penis, not me.
  
  That said…I am now calling a truce with Ramon Rivas. I hope he has discovered that people have their limits. I hope that he understands that it isn’t worth being mean, always “being right”, or always saying what’s on your mind. As I said before, I can do it because I am old, and wise, and nice. But, my many life experiences have taught me that most things are best left unsaid.
  
  Truce Ramon, I am done. See ya around sometime and no hard feelings on my end.
• Denny OHearn Truce???! Come on Leaky this was just getting good…. (: